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	<title>Comments on: Does private property facilitate sexual harassment?</title>
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	<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment</link>
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		<title>By: Their Fault, They&#8217;re Female &#124; A Division by Zer0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment/comment-page-1#comment-82071</link>
		<dc:creator>Their Fault, They&#8217;re Female &#124; A Division by Zer0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=2933#comment-82071</guid>
		<description>[...] their initial stories and some of them truly made me RRRRAGE, especially the kind of blatant harassment and sexism that goes on in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] their initial stories and some of them truly made me RRRRAGE, especially the kind of blatant harassment and sexism that goes on in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On the heterosexual male&#8217;s love for the cock &#124; A Division by Zer0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment/comment-page-1#comment-81359</link>
		<dc:creator>On the heterosexual male&#8217;s love for the cock &#124; A Division by Zer0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 08:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=2933#comment-81359</guid>
		<description>[...] One has to wonder how it comes to be that s0 many right-libertarians end up being misogynists or supporting sexist positions (and then end up wonder why there are so few womyn in their movement). I&#8217;m guessing it has to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] One has to wonder how it comes to be that s0 many right-libertarians end up being misogynists or supporting sexist positions (and then end up wonder why there are so few womyn in their movement). I&#8217;m guessing it has to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: db0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment/comment-page-1#comment-80356</link>
		<dc:creator>db0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=2933#comment-80356</guid>
		<description>I do not try to decide for anyone. I say that you cannot limit the&lt;br /&gt;choices one has and then label the one they choose among them as&lt;br /&gt;\&quot;voluntary\&quot;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not try to decide for anyone. I say that you cannot limit the<br />choices one has and then label the one they choose among them as<br />\&#8221;voluntary\&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin K.</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment/comment-page-1#comment-80354</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=2933#comment-80354</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t assume to know the &quot;highest&quot; of her or anyone&#039;s options.  The truth is that not even the secretary knows what her &quot;highest&quot; or &quot;best&quot; option is.  Furthermore, whatever is thought to be a better option, based on a perceived outcome, may turn out to be a worse option.  If we decide we know what is best for her, that she shouldn&#039;t have the option to deal with sexual harassment, then we become an authoritarian society. 
 
If you really value the ends above the means then I don&#039;t think we can find any common ground.  I value freedom above all else, and if that leads to a society of voluntary socialism or capitalism then so be it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t assume to know the &quot;highest&quot; of her or anyone&#039;s options.  The truth is that not even the secretary knows what her &quot;highest&quot; or &quot;best&quot; option is.  Furthermore, whatever is thought to be a better option, based on a perceived outcome, may turn out to be a worse option.  If we decide we know what is best for her, that she shouldn&#039;t have the option to deal with sexual harassment, then we become an authoritarian society. </p>
<p>If you really value the ends above the means then I don&#039;t think we can find any common ground.  I value freedom above all else, and if that leads to a society of voluntary socialism or capitalism then so be it.</p>
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		<title>By: db0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment/comment-page-1#comment-80282</link>
		<dc:creator>db0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=2933#comment-80282</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;So in a &quot;libertarian&quot; society this point should be rather moot to begin with. If you want to argue that an unregulated free market economy minimizes choice and opportunity for secretaries (or anyone for that matter) then we can go from there. I would completely disagree with any such argument though, and any secretary that seemed &quot;forced&quot; to accept sexual harassment, either explicitly or implicitly, is simply valuing that job&#039;s benefits and pay above the negative aspects that are associated with it.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
You&#039;re using a circular argument by explicitly assuming that the free markets facilitate all the choices. Given an example of a secretary consenting to sexual harassment, you do not challenge your premise (that the free market allow her other options) but assume that this is the highest of her options. 
 
Furthermore, I do not even need to argue that the free market would achieve this opportunities. I value lack of hierarchies and egalitarianism much more than I value the free market. I wish to achieve those two while you wish to achieve a free market and assume that it will bring about those two (or something you think is better). I say that &lt;a href=&quot;http:\/\/dbzer0.com\/blog\/why-are-you-a-market-anarchist&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;your perspective is flawed&lt;/a&gt;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So in a &quot;libertarian&quot; society this point should be rather moot to begin with. If you want to argue that an unregulated free market economy minimizes choice and opportunity for secretaries (or anyone for that matter) then we can go from there. I would completely disagree with any such argument though, and any secretary that seemed &quot;forced&quot; to accept sexual harassment, either explicitly or implicitly, is simply valuing that job&#039;s benefits and pay above the negative aspects that are associated with it.</p></blockquote>
<p>You&#039;re using a circular argument by explicitly assuming that the free markets facilitate all the choices. Given an example of a secretary consenting to sexual harassment, you do not challenge your premise (that the free market allow her other options) but assume that this is the highest of her options. </p>
<p>Furthermore, I do not even need to argue that the free market would achieve this opportunities. I value lack of hierarchies and egalitarianism much more than I value the free market. I wish to achieve those two while you wish to achieve a free market and assume that it will bring about those two (or something you think is better). I say that <a href="http:\/\/dbzer0.com\/blog\/why-are-you-a-market-anarchist" target="_blank">your perspective is flawed</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: db0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment/comment-page-1#comment-80281</link>
		<dc:creator>db0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=2933#comment-80281</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You disagree because outside interaction with that private property is at the owner&#039;s discretion and can facilitate [as you put it] undesirable rules and consequences for others who wish to use that property. However, your disagreements seem to come from the externalities that &quot;force&quot; people to accept these undesirable rules and consequences. If these external forces did not exist your arguments would be baseless. &lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
If these external forces did not exist, private property would be moot in the first place as nobody would consent to any such rules and consequences (i.e. sexual harassment or wage-slavery) when they could go without.  
 
Furthermore I oppose these rules and consequences on their own, not just because they follow from passive coercion. I oppose them on an utilitarian basis that they destroy the happiness of humans. I simply point to the fact that nobody would consent to them given other alternatives to explain why people &quot;voluntarily&quot; accept them now. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You disagree because outside interaction with that private property is at the owner&#039;s discretion and can facilitate [as you put it] undesirable rules and consequences for others who wish to use that property. However, your disagreements seem to come from the externalities that &quot;force&quot; people to accept these undesirable rules and consequences. If these external forces did not exist your arguments would be baseless. </p></blockquote>
<p>If these external forces did not exist, private property would be moot in the first place as nobody would consent to any such rules and consequences (i.e. sexual harassment or wage-slavery) when they could go without.  </p>
<p>Furthermore I oppose these rules and consequences on their own, not just because they follow from passive coercion. I oppose them on an utilitarian basis that they destroy the happiness of humans. I simply point to the fact that nobody would consent to them given other alternatives to explain why people &quot;voluntarily&quot; accept them now.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin K.</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment/comment-page-1#comment-80280</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=2933#comment-80280</guid>
		<description>Correct me wherever I make poor assumptions (which could be everywhere).  You disagree with private property &quot;rights&quot; or at least the &quot;right&quot; to do anything with/on one&#039;s private property.  You disagree because outside interaction with that private property is at the owner&#039;s discretion and can facilitate [as you put it] undesirable rules and consequences for others who wish to use that property.  However, your disagreements seem to come from the externalities that &quot;force&quot; people to accept these undesirable rules and consequences.  If these external forces did not exist your arguments would be baseless. 
 
So in a &quot;libertarian&quot; society this point should be rather moot to begin with.  If you want to argue that an unregulated free market economy minimizes choice and opportunity for secretaries (or anyone for that matter) then we can go from there.  I would completely disagree with any such argument though, and any secretary that seemed &quot;forced&quot; to accept sexual harassment, either explicitly or implicitly, is simply valuing that job&#039;s benefits and pay above the negative aspects that are associated with it.  I do get the feeling though, that you disagree anyone should &quot;deal with&quot; sexual harassment when they would rather have a job without it.  But then you&#039;d just be hypocritical if you didn&#039;t defend the unfortunate individuals that have to &quot;deal with&quot; 40-hour work weeks, deadlines, dress codes, and unpaid time off. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct me wherever I make poor assumptions (which could be everywhere).  You disagree with private property &quot;rights&quot; or at least the &quot;right&quot; to do anything with/on one&#039;s private property.  You disagree because outside interaction with that private property is at the owner&#039;s discretion and can facilitate [as you put it] undesirable rules and consequences for others who wish to use that property.  However, your disagreements seem to come from the externalities that &quot;force&quot; people to accept these undesirable rules and consequences.  If these external forces did not exist your arguments would be baseless. </p>
<p>So in a &quot;libertarian&quot; society this point should be rather moot to begin with.  If you want to argue that an unregulated free market economy minimizes choice and opportunity for secretaries (or anyone for that matter) then we can go from there.  I would completely disagree with any such argument though, and any secretary that seemed &quot;forced&quot; to accept sexual harassment, either explicitly or implicitly, is simply valuing that job&#039;s benefits and pay above the negative aspects that are associated with it.  I do get the feeling though, that you disagree anyone should &quot;deal with&quot; sexual harassment when they would rather have a job without it.  But then you&#039;d just be hypocritical if you didn&#039;t defend the unfortunate individuals that have to &quot;deal with&quot; 40-hour work weeks, deadlines, dress codes, and unpaid time off.</p>
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		<title>By: Oh hey look! More &#8220;Anarcho&#8221;-Capitalists defending the facilitation of sexual harassment on the grounds of liberty. &#124; A Division by Zer0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment/comment-page-1#comment-78843</link>
		<dc:creator>Oh hey look! More &#8220;Anarcho&#8221;-Capitalists defending the facilitation of sexual harassment on the grounds of liberty. &#124; A Division by Zer0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=2933#comment-78843</guid>
		<description>[...] I posted a while back explaining why the AnCap dismissals of Block&#8217;s support for sexual harassment where misguided and inconsistent with their own principles and why the question was not really about the act of aggression but how a capitalist system makes the act itself possible. Now, someone else is basically making the same argument as me only&#8230;he comes from the opposite side. I&#8217;ve just noticed that Kinsella left a comment on Brad Spangler&#8217;s blog making a similar case in support of such facilitiation&#8230;on the grounds of liberty of course. In sum: no one is entitled to a job; employment is at-will: you can quit any time, or be fired any time. So you are not entitled to a job offer, so a conditional one does not violate your rights: I offer you a job IF you will consent to my lechery, fondling, whatever. The candidate can accept or turn it down. Note that this is true even AFTER they start work for you, usually–since employment is at-will. So you can just fire her one second, and re-offer the job, with strings, the next second. Etc. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I posted a while back explaining why the AnCap dismissals of Block&#8217;s support for sexual harassment where misguided and inconsistent with their own principles and why the question was not really about the act of aggression but how a capitalist system makes the act itself possible. Now, someone else is basically making the same argument as me only&#8230;he comes from the opposite side. I&#8217;ve just noticed that Kinsella left a comment on Brad Spangler&#8217;s blog making a similar case in support of such facilitiation&#8230;on the grounds of liberty of course. In sum: no one is entitled to a job; employment is at-will: you can quit any time, or be fired any time. So you are not entitled to a job offer, so a conditional one does not violate your rights: I offer you a job IF you will consent to my lechery, fondling, whatever. The candidate can accept or turn it down. Note that this is true even AFTER they start work for you, usually–since employment is at-will. So you can just fire her one second, and re-offer the job, with strings, the next second. Etc. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Why are you a Market Anarchist? &#124; A Division by Zer0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment/comment-page-1#comment-78657</link>
		<dc:creator>Why are you a Market Anarchist? &#124; A Division by Zer0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 09:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=2933#comment-78657</guid>
		<description>[...] Does private property facilitate sexual harassment?  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Does private property facilitate sexual harassment?  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Answering no third solution: contracts do not magically create ethics. &#171; Check Your Premises</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/does-private-property-facilitate-sexual-harassment/comment-page-1#comment-78369</link>
		<dc:creator>Answering no third solution: contracts do not magically create ethics. &#171; Check Your Premises</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 07:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=2933#comment-78369</guid>
		<description>[...] another refutation of David&#8217;s amoral subjectivist propaganda, see Does private property facilitate sexual harassment?, by Division by Zero. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Liberty Means Environmental [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] another refutation of David&#8217;s amoral subjectivist propaganda, see Does private property facilitate sexual harassment?, by Division by Zero. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Liberty Means Environmental [...]</p>
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