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	<title>Comments on: What Capitalism needs</title>
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	<description>A bug in the code of the universe.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: db0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/what-capitalism-needs/comment-page-1#comment-11778</link>
		<dc:creator>db0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=1535#comment-11778</guid>
		<description>Barring external coercion (almost impossible but lets take a theoretical situation) humans generally exchange items of equal objective value. That is why you don&#039;t see people exchanging cars for toasters. Their objective value is very different. While both parties put a different subjective value on their items, this is simply what facilitates the trade, not what denotes their worth. 
 
See my musing on &lt;a href=&quot;http://dbzer0.com/blog/objective-and-subjective-value&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;objective and subjective value&lt;/a&gt; for more on this subject </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barring external coercion (almost impossible but lets take a theoretical situation) humans generally exchange items of equal objective value. That is why you don&#039;t see people exchanging cars for toasters. Their objective value is very different. While both parties put a different subjective value on their items, this is simply what facilitates the trade, not what denotes their worth. </p>
<p>See my musing on <a href="http://dbzer0.com/blog/objective-and-subjective-value" target="_blank">objective and subjective value</a> for more on this subject </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Z</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/what-capitalism-needs/comment-page-1#comment-11766</link>
		<dc:creator>David Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=1535#comment-11766</guid>
		<description>&quot;Without it, you are only exchanging items of equal value to fulfil our own desires. Thus, nobody profits unless by miscalculation.&quot; 
 
I respectfully disagree.  It is precisely because both traders place different values on the items being exchange, that trade *ever* occurs.  It&#039;s nonsense to suggest that I would trade X for something that I valued exactly the same as X (or that someone else would be the counterparty).  Mutually beneficial trade occurs when I trade my X (which I value less than your Y) for your Y (which you value less than my X).  Sometimes, of course, our estimations turn out to be mistaken, but this is by no means a requisite part of &quot;exchange&quot;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Without it, you are only exchanging items of equal value to fulfil our own desires. Thus, nobody profits unless by miscalculation.&quot; </p>
<p>I respectfully disagree.  It is precisely because both traders place different values on the items being exchange, that trade *ever* occurs.  It&#039;s nonsense to suggest that I would trade X for something that I valued exactly the same as X (or that someone else would be the counterparty).  Mutually beneficial trade occurs when I trade my X (which I value less than your Y) for your Y (which you value less than my X).  Sometimes, of course, our estimations turn out to be mistaken, but this is by no means a requisite part of &quot;exchange&quot;. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Z</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/what-capitalism-needs/comment-page-1#comment-11765</link>
		<dc:creator>David Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=1535#comment-11765</guid>
		<description>The doctor/researcher who eventually develops the universal Panacea will have a few options at his disposal: 
 
1. He can sell his invention to insurers a make a handsome trillion dollars, a small price to pay I suppose for the eternal alleviation of human suffering. 
2. He can give his invention to the world and live off of his goodwill and reputation (probably not a bad life, either) 
 
Most likely, he&#039;ll be assassinated by a cabal of other doctors. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The doctor/researcher who eventually develops the universal Panacea will have a few options at his disposal: </p>
<p>1. He can sell his invention to insurers a make a handsome trillion dollars, a small price to pay I suppose for the eternal alleviation of human suffering.<br />
2. He can give his invention to the world and live off of his goodwill and reputation (probably not a bad life, either) </p>
<p>Most likely, he&#039;ll be assassinated by a cabal of other doctors. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: db0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/what-capitalism-needs/comment-page-1#comment-6021</link>
		<dc:creator>db0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 07:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=1535#comment-6021</guid>
		<description>No it doesn&#039;t. Since Free Markets and Capitalism are mutually exclusive then you simply cannot merge them. You&#039;re simply trying to preserve the name &quot;Free Markets&quot; while the actual result is not &quot;Free&quot; at all. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No it doesn&#039;t. Since Free Markets and Capitalism are mutually exclusive then you simply cannot merge them. You&#039;re simply trying to preserve the name &quot;Free Markets&quot; while the actual result is not &quot;Free&quot; at all. </p>
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		<title>By: Charles Hope</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/what-capitalism-needs/comment-page-1#comment-86712</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Hope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=1535#comment-86712</guid>
		<description>This conversation is going to the fundamentals, which is exactly where it must! 
 
A free market is a market comprised of voluntary exchanges.  A voluntary exchange only requires two people, who may use money or not, as they choose. 
 
I have already shown that prices do not reflect any objective value, because the price is whatever the buyer will pay, which is purely subjective.  
 
What is the price of a sack of corn to a farmer? I take an example &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/28/economics-time-price-oped-time08-cx_pm_0229maidment.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;from&lt;/a&gt;: 
 
The farmer needs the first sack just to survive until the next harvest. The second sack will ensure he eats well. The third sack he would use to feed poultry to provide variety in his diet. The fourth sack he would use to make whiskey. The fifth sack he would use to feed pet birds. 
 
In these circumstances, the value of the fifth sack of corn is low to the farmer (although not to the birds). If he lost it, he wouldn&#039;t pay much to replace it, if at all. He would just stop the use that provides him with the least value--feeding his pet birds. 
 
As the farmer loses each successive sack of corn, the value rises. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This conversation is going to the fundamentals, which is exactly where it must! </p>
<p>A free market is a market comprised of voluntary exchanges.  A voluntary exchange only requires two people, who may use money or not, as they choose. </p>
<p>I have already shown that prices do not reflect any objective value, because the price is whatever the buyer will pay, which is purely subjective.  </p>
<p>What is the price of a sack of corn to a farmer? I take an example <a href="http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/28/economics-time-price-oped-time08-cx_pm_0229maidment.html" rel="nofollow">from</a>: </p>
<p>The farmer needs the first sack just to survive until the next harvest. The second sack will ensure he eats well. The third sack he would use to feed poultry to provide variety in his diet. The fourth sack he would use to make whiskey. The fifth sack he would use to feed pet birds. </p>
<p>In these circumstances, the value of the fifth sack of corn is low to the farmer (although not to the birds). If he lost it, he wouldn&#039;t pay much to replace it, if at all. He would just stop the use that provides him with the least value&#8211;feeding his pet birds. </p>
<p>As the farmer loses each successive sack of corn, the value rises. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Charles Hope</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/what-capitalism-needs/comment-page-1#comment-86683</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Hope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=1535#comment-86683</guid>
		<description>Since value is subjective, how does the opinion of other people matter?  This is an issue of social status or prestige, not value. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since value is subjective, how does the opinion of other people matter?  This is an issue of social status or prestige, not value. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: db0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/what-capitalism-needs/comment-page-1#comment-86684</link>
		<dc:creator>db0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=1535#comment-86684</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Where is the contradiction between our two definitions of capitalism? And how does your definition exclude the exchange of a back rub for a hair weave?&lt;/blockquote&gt;  
  
Well, first of all, Capitalism needs money to work.   
Without it, you are only exchanging items of equal value to fulfil our own desires. Thus, nobody profits unless by miscalculation.  
In your example, we are tradin a Commodity for a Commodity. Simply C - C.  
When you put money in the equation, your example becomes C - M - C. Thus you trade you commodity for an equal value of money and use those money to buy my commodity.  
A Capitalist works in this equation. M - C - Mi, or Money - Commodity - More Money.  
  
His objective is not to get an item of equal value but to get more money. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Where is the contradiction between our two definitions of capitalism? And how does your definition exclude the exchange of a back rub for a hair weave?</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, first of all, Capitalism needs money to work.<br />
Without it, you are only exchanging items of equal value to fulfil our own desires. Thus, nobody profits unless by miscalculation.<br />
In your example, we are tradin a Commodity for a Commodity. Simply C &#8211; C.<br />
When you put money in the equation, your example becomes C &#8211; M &#8211; C. Thus you trade you commodity for an equal value of money and use those money to buy my commodity.<br />
A Capitalist works in this equation. M &#8211; C &#8211; Mi, or Money &#8211; Commodity &#8211; More Money.  </p>
<p>His objective is not to get an item of equal value but to get more money. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Charles Hope</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/what-capitalism-needs/comment-page-1#comment-86635</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Hope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=1535#comment-86635</guid>
		<description>This is sort of like saying that Doctors don&#039;t really exist, because in seeking to cure disease they would be destroying their own livelihoods. Markets don&#039;t require abject misery, they simply require desire.  Desire can be for luxury items as well as sustenance, so a world where everybody was happily fed and clothed could nevertheless support markets in luxuries, travel, and art. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is sort of like saying that Doctors don&#039;t really exist, because in seeking to cure disease they would be destroying their own livelihoods. Markets don&#039;t require abject misery, they simply require desire.  Desire can be for luxury items as well as sustenance, so a world where everybody was happily fed and clothed could nevertheless support markets in luxuries, travel, and art. </p>
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		<title>By: Dissecting the Libertarian mind &#187; A Division by Zer0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/what-capitalism-needs/comment-page-1#comment-5752</link>
		<dc:creator>Dissecting the Libertarian mind &#187; A Division by Zer0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=1535#comment-5752</guid>
		<description>[...] recent posts on Capitalism, &#8220;Free Market&#8221; and the subsequent heated discussions with Libertarian[1] stormtroopers [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recent posts on Capitalism, &#8220;Free Market&#8221; and the subsequent heated discussions with Libertarian[1] stormtroopers [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Back to the needs of Capitalism &#187; A Division by Zer0</title>
		<link>http://dbzer0.com/blog/what-capitalism-needs/comment-page-1#comment-5576</link>
		<dc:creator>Back to the needs of Capitalism &#187; A Division by Zer0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dbzer0.com/?p=1535#comment-5576</guid>
		<description>[...] 13.10 What Capitalism needs [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 13.10 What Capitalism needs [...]</p>
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