Redditors insist that being accused of rape is just as bas or worse as being raped
I had a discussion on this issue again on reddit. I thought I’d repost my comments here. Unfortunately the person I was talking to deleted their comments, but I’ve quoted a part of it. Basically that person claimed that they had both been raped and been falsely accused of rape and both scarred them deeply. They were using their personal experiences to argue that false rape accusations can be just as bad as being raped. So I wrote…
Were you convicted? Same thing can happen for being convicted of murder, or any other serious crime.
Not to mention that this is not necessarily what happens to all who are accused of rape. Much of the time, the rape victim is not believed at all, their tale trivialized, or they are victim-blamed.
Yes, it sucks to be considered guilty for something you didn’t do. If there’s enough evidence to convict you, it can totally ruin a life and nobody deserves that. But accusing someone of rape is nothing compared to being raped.
Simply being falsely accused does not always lead to anything bad happening. Being raped always leaves permanent scars.
The basic point is that the results of fale accusation and rapes always vary. Some victims might take it better than others. But rape, on average, has far far worse results and occurs with far higher frequency.
Finally, within the current system there is a kind of zero sum effect between false rape accusations and actual rapes. We’re still at a point in time where many kind of rapes are not considered “rape-rape” (as some clueless media personas have called it) and there’s still a huge amount of rapes that don’t see justice because the victim was afraid to come out for fear of being accused and victim blamed. By making the culture more focused on false-rape accusations (i.e. more skeptic towards accusations of rape), is just going to make victim blaming even worse and thus more women are unlikely to even come out.
There is no perfect solution within the sociopolitical system we live in (which is why, and others, are rather radical about the change we need to have). But until then, I find it absurd to compare something that happens to something like 0.5% (or was it 0.05%? fairly small anyway as it only affects around 2%-8% of rape accusations) of males and has on average very little consequences, to something that happens to 15%-25% (statistic vary, but it’s a fucking lot) of females, causes horrible psychological damage, and is so permeating that it affects the lives of all females, without it ever happening to them, simply due to the fear that it might.
They replied to that comment with parts I quoted when I responded.
sad but true that an accusation is basically the same as a conviction in the eyes of everyone around you when it comes to rape
That’s just not true. I guess it depends on who you hang out with but this attitude is definitelly not generic.
I’d say that the SOCIAL consequences of a false accusation are at least as bad if not worse as those of being raped, and the potential exists for someone’s life to be destroyed just as fully if not moreso (thanks to the lack of support/resources) as someone who was raped.
Again, that’s just not true and I haven’t seen any study showing that this is anywhere near common.
OTOH, there’s never a loss for cases of rape accusations (true of false) where the accused didn’t have any problems from it.
Yes, the potential is there, but having a potential for a false rape (or murder, or theft) accusation to turn out horrid is not a guarantee. But every rape turns out on a scale of horrid.
52 thoughts on “Once again comparing false rape accusations to actual rape.”
I'm starting to think that belittling the experience of being falsely accused of rape is not necessary for the cause of protecting rape victims and getting rid of rape culture. The simple fact that false rape accusations are exceedingly low should trigger a flashing warning sign: Why do most people seem to be so concerned with these rare cases when we have a rape epidemic on our hands? Probably because of a bias against women and victims in general; they aren't trusted, and people have the tendency to identify more with those with power than those without (e.g. white people, men, the wealthy). I don't know why this is, but perhaps it has to do with a desire to be like those with power.
So, regardless of whether or not being falsely accused of rape is just as bad as being raped, the fact remains that it us not common, and rape is. We need to trust the people who say they've been raped, because chances are, they're telling the truth, and falsely accusing a rape victim of lying is CERTAINLY just as bad, if not worse than, falsely being accused of rape.
"Why do most people seem to be so concerned with these rare cases when we have a rape epidemic on our hands?"
Easy, because of the devastating effects of being accused.
Suggest you read my comment again.
Actually rape is only "epidemic" when you expand the definition so heavily to include many totally ignored cases where a male is the victim of a female. Date rape is a good example of that since it includes only her being intoxicated not being able to consent. His being intoxicated is no excuse no matter if she is the one who initiated the sex which is one way the numbers are skewed very heavily. Add in that it is at least twice the rate of other false reports for crimes and it is not a small number.
As for the effect, let me demonstrate the effects for you. My ex used them as a way to get leverage in divorce court and to get even with me for filing after I caught her in yet another affair. My injuries from the military would make rape for me next to impossible anyways and killed my desire for sex anyways but those reports still count towards the numbers since they were just listed as unfounded which means not enough evidence. An actual finding of it being a false claim requires that we be able to prove beyond an reasonable doubt she intentionally lies and did not actually believe her own claims due to any reason to include a mental hath condition. That is why there has not been a single case of them prosecuting it in my county as far back as anyone can find in the records.
It came out after many years and many investigations that the reality was her claiming I had raped her and was molesting our daughter was actually covering up for HER letting her boyfriends and then husband rape our daughter. It took her attempting suicide for that to come out since the police and all the nice people who were SUPPOSED to be getting to the truth and investigating all the previous claims had ignored our daughter when she tried to claim it was those people and not me. By then, so many FALSE reports had been done that they couldn't prosecute the real rapists because the word of my daughter was destroyed by her mother's false reports using her and all those trained in believing this rape culture junk only cared to believe what the mother said.
So what kind of damage do these things cause? I lost my career because it killed my security clearance it required, was jailed because I had problems paying child support for a while when that happened and it was not a good excuse to reduce or have problems paying support, I lost contact with my children for months at a time and it was reduced to almost nothing for years and my children both suffered a lot of physical and emotional abuse by their mother, finally my daughter spent years being raped and nothing was done to the real rapists.
You are right that belittling those of us who have suffered from false accusations is not needed and IMO it is no less wrong than to do the same of someone who suffered being raped but it is more common and much more devastating with more reaching effects than most will ever admit. I have even been called a liar, told I must have really been the molester and rapist and etc by those who defend the idea of ignoring false accusations because they fear anything being done about it. But maybe they should have to look in to the eyes of my daughter and tell her she is a liar and what happened is acceptable since it was directed to get revenge on me by her mother.
I also actually have a theory I have asked numerous researchers to look at doing studies on with the issue and it is based on my experiences as well as with talks with many female friends. Rape is heavily under-reported by both women and men but for different reasons and my theory is based on strictly women for reporting or not. I believe women who really have been raped are a lot like male victims and will try to hide it and not report it. But with the present culture, many women see it as a way for easy revenge or to cover up for their own actions and those who look at it like that are much more likely to go to the police and make a false report. Looking at it like this explains a lot in how it has a very high percentage of false reporting, high rate of being unreported and other things that seem to conflict all at the same time.
IMHO, being put in a cage for life and having your reputation ruined is worse than a single traumatizing experience, but that's just my crazy opinion.
Being accused is not the same as being convicted. And being raped is not simply a "traumatizing experience" according to rape victims. It's something that permeates your whole life afterwards.
"It's something that permeates your whole life afterwards. "
As do rape allegations.
wtf? Why is this still an issue? False accusations are very rare, and rape is not. Nor is it a "single traumatizing experience." Rape victims are traumatised continuously throughout their lives, every time they're not believed, every time something triggers their experience.
"False accusations are very rare,"
Got anything to back this up?
I suggest you start here http://manboobz.com/2010/11/11/mens-rights-myth-f… here http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/03/25/… and here http://www.amptoons.com/blog/2009/04/15/eugene-ka… and then look at all of the studies that those articles summarise.
Dubzy…. I have seen too many different numbers about false rape accusations to really draw any conclusions about how pervasive it is, but on the same note I too, think it disingenuous to compare false rape accusations to actual rape.
"As do rape allegations."
Speaking as a rape survivor, I can agree with this but on the same note, I disagree that it's as bad as actual rape.
"IMHO, being put in a cage for life and having your reputation ruined is worse than a single traumatizing experience, but that's just my crazy opinion."
Are you seriously trying to go there? Depression, suicidal thoughts, immense amounts of psychological issues, and lasting bodily harm disagrees with this notion.
Being accused of false rape not a big deal? Being arrested, strip searched, deloused, placed in cell with scum of the earth, lose your job, friends, family. And that's if the female's father-brother-friends-boyfriend(s) don't kill you first. Then there's years in prison after your defense is handicapped by rape-shield laws, where you stand a good chance of being raped, and/or experiencing daily beatings. Many times a man has the shit beat out of him before the cops get to him. One recent case I remember happened in Texas. Woman was having sex in pickup in her driveway. Husband drove up, so she thought real quick and started yelling rape. Husband shot and killed "rapist". Good news? Cops found out about her relationship, charged her. She was convicted and put in prison. So yes, just as there are degrees of rape, depending on how emotional you are, there are degrees of false accusations. Some women can lay there and take it then call the cops. Some totally freak out. In spite of what feminists tell you, there is a code of honor among men that you don't rape. Once a man is branded, there's always a stench that follows him. Yes, in my opinion. being falsely accused of rape can be far worse than rape. It depends on the person, the experience, and the results. As to the frequency of false rape accusations, it happens a hell of lot more than most of you think. Feminists like to throw out the "uncounted" number of rapes as a percentage, picked from thin air. Use the same assumption for false accusations where a woman blackmails a man with the threat of going to the cops. One real rape is too many, one false accusation is too many.
Nobody said that false rape accusations are not a big deal. Your anecdata is unimpressive, compared to anecdotes or rape.
No one has said that rape is not serious, but I'll go ahead and do that. A famous feminist once said that men can learn from being falsely accused of rape. Well, I throw that right back, that women can learn from being raped. As I said in my post there are varying degrees of both experiences where one is worse than the other. Not all rape is a terrible horrifying experience. So, define rape. False accusation of rape says it all, so I'm sure that needs no definition. Do you have a definition of rape? I'll tell you what feminists call rape. In addition to the gun/knife to the head or a violent beating kind of rape, rape is also whenever a woman has sex and regrets it. Basically, a man goes to sleep after having sex and wakes up as a rapist, depending on the woman's feelings. Your first sentence does not need written. The second sentence……who the hell knows what you're trying to say. It's obvious you put no thought into what I wrote.
I'm done talking to you, scumfuck. Go drink bleach.
Some "people" can't handle the truth. Since this "person" can't delete me or censor me or have a thoughtful debate, it decides the conversation is over. So be it.
more info that says over 50% of rape accusations are false:
An alarming national trend:
False Rape Allegations
Eugene J. Kanin, Ph.D.
Department of Sociology and Anthropology,
Purdue University http://www.anandaanswers.com/pages/naaFalse.html http://www.anandaanswers.com/pages/naaStats.html
Kanin's findings are flawed as Futrelle shows with his well sourced article here on Manboobz.
Thanks Cat 🙂
Apparently I've been linked from an MRA shithole and all the little shits are coming here to vomit their opinions now.
God forbid men trying to get rid of sexist laws that oppress them have an opinion
Lawl @ "oppressed men"
BUT BRO IT'S NOT LIKE THE WIMMYNZ OR THE SEXUAL MINORITIES ARE THE OPPRESSED ONES COMPARATIVELY SPEAKING BRAH US BROS ARE TOTALLY OPPRESSED AND WE DEMAND BRO RIGHTS.
(oh gods I just had an idea for an awesome subreddit)
ScumFuck? My, what indelicate language coming from such a lovely young lady … a member of the fair sex, no less.
Hey, why don't you and Jezebel go lick Dave Futrelle's Man Boobz! BWAHAHAHAHA! (:p
Who said I'm a woman you little shit? Not that that would mean I would be incapable of calling you scumfucks.
The way you write tells us you're a woman, clamato, and a bad liar to boot!. It's especially evident the way you imply you're not a woman … without specifically denying it in print.
Yeah! Care to give me some odds on that???
1000 to 1.
I'll take your odds bozo, now quote me a price.
I'll make it easy for you. If I prove I'm male, you stop being an MRA scumfuck. If I don't, I close my blog. How's that sound?
Your style of writing says it all Wanda. Or should I write ladycat123?
I find it humorous that a "progressive" woman like you would misgender someone who is clearly male. Or is that not your blog Marsha? I'm assuming the latter.
No, not someone who is clearly male, sweetcheeks; just someone who is doing their assinine takeoff on what they think is a male. No male would ever instruct another one to "go drink bleach!"
Is that a fact?
You bet it is butch!
All you can do is make up a word and then use it in a grammatically incorrect way db0. No such thing as "anecdata". Anyway anecdata ARE incorrect, not IS. A Ph.D. from Purdue University published a "flawed" paper huh? This, according to a hack freelance writer who is currently out of work!
I love how you jump straight from gramma nazism to fallacious ad hominems.
And I love what a veritable holocaust you make out of trying to be something more than a smug, smarmy pseudo-intellectual master baiter, deary.
I do love me some frustrated MRAs. At least you're wasting your time here instead of harassing females as always.
one thing you apologists for false rape accusers are forgetting………….is that when the law becomes unwilling to protect men from false rape allegations, there WILL become a time when the law is going to be unable to protect false accusers from their victims
Lol@internet tough guise
An evasive non-answer db0.
No need to answer to internet tough guise.
You're right DFW Bitter Clinger.
False accusations of domestic violence and/or rape against men by women are common. The flimsiest of false accusations by a woman can cause a man's arrest. False accusations can be devastating to a man's self-worth and his career. Such false accusations are a crime, and also a form of domestic violence and/or sexual assault, yet police and prosecutors almost never prosecute false accusers. Men wind up gender profiled and falsely accused by the taxpayer funded, domestic violence/rape witch-hunt industry, because of gender feminist ideology controlling that industry. Domestic violence and/or rape will never end as long as "the whole truth" is misrepresented to comply with gender feminist ideology. As long as false accusers of domestic violence and/or rape are not prosecuted, domestic violence and/or rape laws will lack integrity as shown in "Witch-Hunting Males" at Youtube http://tinyurl.com/65dpzwu And as shown in "Los Misandry" at Youtube, http://tinyurl.com/27oh7cp
Oh gawds, all the MRAs have come out of the woodworks.
No, false rape accusations are not common. Rapes by women are not common.
A big problem I see here is that many "people" conflate false rape allegations and false domestic abuse allegations. False domestic abuse is a real problem, but so is domestic abuse. Someone might be able to convince me of the parity of those two problems, but rape and rape accusation? Not even close. Funny how the only stories I tend to hear about false rape allegations always involve them being beaten…
Yes, I deleted it. Just as I'm about to delete this one. My blog is not your fucking platform. Go post your shit on the shitty forum you inhabit.
I never cease bemusement at the fact that you paranoids keep lying about your fantasy world of so-called rape culture, replete with the overwhelming abundance of so-called rape jokes (none of which I've ever heard). You're always gonna protect women from being raped, despite the fact that no man in his right mind would ever have sex with you, especially forcible sex. Get the help you so sorely need, will ya? 🙂
I would hope that no man would ever have sex with me, for I am not gay.
But where the fuck do you worms keep coming from?
Wow, I'm so sorry to see you've been inundated with these bullies. Just remember, don't feed the trolls. It's hard, because of the hungry looks on their trolly faces – you can't help but want to give them some sustenance. But just let them starve. You cannot educate someone who doesn't have a brain to begin with.
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