Want to see a creationist getting owned? Head over to pharyngula’s for a laugh. The following quote by another commenter speaks volumes on what is doing on.
Steven, was the eugenics program in Sparta motivated by Darwinist teaching?
Just, LOL!
A Taste of my mind. Anything from Sociopolitics to Religion to Philosophy in general goes.
Want to see a creationist getting owned? Head over to pharyngula’s for a laugh. The following quote by another commenter speaks volumes on what is doing on.
Steven, was the eugenics program in Sparta motivated by Darwinist teaching?
Just, LOL!
Recently I took this little test and the results where pretty much what I expected.
The results seem to indicate that I’m a kind of Ghandi 🙂 Just a bit more libertarianist and less to the left.
There also other interesting tidbits you can check out in there. For example, I find it very interesting how the entire political spectrum of the U.S. is on the to right quarter, with two notable Democtat exceptions (who incidentally were branded “extreme left” and had no real chance). Apparently, for the U.S. , the “left” is just anything close to the middle from the right side. Of course, this is what one would except of them, what with their irrational fear or communists.
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Η δικαστής Γρεβενών κα Μαρία Μαργαρίτη, εκδιώχθηκε κακήν κακώς από το δικαστικό σώμα,όταν έβγαλε στην φόρα, παρτίδα Κονδυλίων που προορίζονταν ως οικονομική ενίσχυση σε σεισμοπαθείς, τα οποία κατασπαράχτηκαν από κρατικούς και παρακρατικούς φορείς.
Παράλληλα, ξεμπρόστιασε ολόκληρο το δικαστικό σώμα, αποκαλύπτοντας τον ΟΙΚΟ ΑΝΟΧΗΣ ΠΟΥ ΛΕΙΤΟΥΡΓΕΙ ΣΤΟΥΣ ΧΩΡΟΥΣ ΤΟΝ ΔΙΚΑΣΤΗΡΙΩΝ: Εκατοντάδες ανήλικοι έχουν κακοποιηθεί σεξουαλικά (και πολλές φορές έναντι αμοιβής που απολαμβάνουν δικαστικοί και άλλοι”μεσάζοντες”) σε μυστικό χώρο, ειδικά διαμορφωμένο εντός των δικαστηρίων!
Η κα Μαρία Μαργαρίτη, προέβη σε απεργία πείνας έξω από το Μέγαρο Μαξίμου, ζητώντας την πλήρη αποκατάστασή της και την ανάδειξη των παραπάνω θεμάτων. Όμως, η προσωπική ασφάλεια του κου Καραμανλή φρόντισε να την απομακρύνει βίαια, όπως θα δείτε και στο παρακάτω βίντεο.
Αξίζει να σημειωθεί ότι το συγκεκριμένο θέμα μέχρι αυτή την στιγμή
ΔΕΝ ΠΡΟΒΛΗΘΗΚΕ ΠΟΤΕ ΚΑΙ ΑΠΟ ΚΑΝΕΝΑ ΣΧΕΔΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟ ΡΑΔΙΟΤΗΛΕΟΠΤΙΚΟ ΜΕΣΟ, παρά μόνο από το BBC, ενώ στο YouTube η μαζική διανομή του βίντεο δεν επιτρέπεται (αναγράφεται η ένδειξη “Embedding disabled by request”).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jglCyU8TPJw
[coolplayer width=”355″ height=”288″ autoplay=”0″ loop=”0″ charset=”utf-8″ download=”1″ mediatype=”flv”]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jglCyU8TPJw
[/coolplayer]
According to a law passed by the German parties CDU, CSU and SPD, from 2008 on it will be possible to trace who has contacted whom via telephone, mobile phone or e-mail for a period of six months.
— Anonymising services will be prohibited. —
This is a really frightening prospect. However many organizations are already working on getting this up to the Supreme Court so hopefully it will receive a negative ruling.
Spread the word!
Here is the main reason why people should know about and (hopefully) support the Pirate Party.
I’ve already set up a €5 donation per month just because this is a movement that deserves traction. Our personal freedoms are much more important than the bottom line of corporations who have a shady history of dealings (Payola, hacking etc).
Especially when we get to the point of pressuring the goverment to pass laws, only for the benefit of big corporations, to the detriment of the freedom and creativity of everyone else, then we really have an issue.
Now, can someone point me to the Greek and German Pirate parties?
As I was lying in bed, waiting for Morpheus to take me in his embrace, I once again started getting a mindful of ideas (Must have been that pesky Belphegor again, the demon of invention and lost sleep). This time I thought about children and creativity and a way to channel it to more productive purposes.
Ok, first of all I will admit that I am not a parent so I am not explicitly aware of all the fine details of child raising, however I have been a child and at least I have kept my viewpoint of that time (for I do not mature, I just grow old). Lately as well, I’ve been trying to get back into [tag]Wesnoth[/tag] contributing once more and this has been expressed in me playing the new campaigns and begging people to update my campaign for now, but, you know, the year is still young…
In any case, for some reason, in my jumble of a thoughts, an idea was born, one which I will now make you suffer through (For misery loves company).
I know that many parents have problems directing their children’s enthusiasm and creativity to something useful (Gawd knows my mother always had a problem making me do something with a purpose.) Not only that, but I believe it should be of foremost importance for parents to give their children some experience of the real world, instead of keeping them cocooned until the age of rebellion. Of course there needs to be a limit and a purpose to this experience, so do not think that I am advocating the sending of your children to construction yards or something similar; rather I am thinking of a parent-driven activity that will teach your child to channel it’s creative juices to a specific task, the building of team spirit and the psychological reward that the appreciation of your peers will bring.
How do I propose to achieve that? Through free software contribution.
Now, when I say free software, do not assume immediately that I am talking about C++ coding (unless of course your child has the appropriate tendencies for hacking). What I am talking is recognizing where it’s talents lie and then selecting an appropriate project to do. Kids come with many kinds of them, but in this example we can discuss about three of the most common: Arts, Music and Maths (since these are the ones I can see as candidates, but feel free to correct me if I am mistaken)
So you know what your progeny is good at, I would assume; perhaps it has a great knack for drawing, or perhaps it loves music and wants to learn to play, in any case, it should give you a hint on what it likes to do.
The trick is now to find a project that the child will enjoy participating in, for if the exercise becomes a chore, we’ve already lost half the battle I’m afraid.
In my mind, a perfect candidate would be the aforementioned Battle for Wesnoth game which is, to my knowledge, always happy to receive Art, Music and more campaigns. Of course this suggestion is not restrictive and you can choose something else, closer to its preferences. I only chose that for it family content, easy play style and excellent community.
So, you’ve know the Talent, you know the focus, all you need to do is select the project. Lets assume that you are using Wesnoth for now, and that your child has a tendency to draw well. Once you’ve hooked it to the game to create enthusiasm (lets say, had it play some of the introductory campaigns) you decide to have you child create some kind of art. As you can see, there are many option you might select but I believe that the best choice would be either to create a hero or unit portrait, or to create a new sprite/sprite animation.
The next step would be to join the forum as a parent and:
Once these initial steps have been done, the interesting part begins. Explain that this will become a project that it will need to complete. It should not be graded for it but there should be some kind of reward in the end for a successful completion, as well as for the various goals you’ve set (for example, a goal for a scetch, a goal for the coloured image and a last one of the full complete portrait.) These should keep the child working for the next reward. There should absolutely be no punishment involved.
Now, and this is really important, have the child join the community and post its progress. The point of this is manifold:
As I mentioned before, this can only work is the child is excited about the project and if rewards are given for achieving goals. The former is undeniable much more important than the later, which is why I stress that it should nurtured. The later however is important in helping the child push through even if enthusiasm starts to wane. The point is that we are trying to achieve a self-replicating circle between working from enthusiasm, and praise for work done which triggers more enthusiasm. If the child starts to lose steam between these two ends, a reward would be useful in getting it to a goal point and getting the subsequent praise.
The best kind of reward however is one that will be able to trigger enthusiasm just by itself. Some example that I can think of are:
I am certain that astute readers can see how these instructions can be applied to any talent that your child might possess.
Of course, as I mentioned, I only used Wesnoth as my sample because of my recent attempts to start it again, but this does not mean that there are not other projects out there that you can switch it for. However I truly believe that it has the greatest potential as it has room for most creativity outlets, is easy enough for a young child to play, has a great community and is pretty family-safe (no blood and gore, sexual innuendo etc. At least not as far as I’ve seen).
I will leave it for interested parties to investigate what other options there are but please feel free to make suggestions in the comments.
So, this was my braindump for the night. As with most of the things I’ve written, it might be total bull so feel free to come in and make fun of me write your opinion on this. I would love to hear where my ideas have gone wrong and perhaps we might even improve this to a degree that it is actually useful.
Amazing! I was randomly reading my feeds and the Exapologist mentioned the Prosblogion and I though to take a quick look. There, checking up on a recent post, I happened upon a comment that perfectly describes my opinion on subjective morality.
That’s the essential distinction. People almost always seem to think that if the basis of morality is subjective then its arbitrary and any set of values is as good as another.
This (considering morality subjective) was something that the Objectivists I was recently discussing with, stood (and still do) upon to declare that I was using a defeated philosophy (or whatever).
Nice to see that there are others that think, at least similarly. I think I might visit that place again to find other such juicy nuggets of thought.
I agree with this stance, but I think the author is not taking it far enough. Not only that, but I would never dream of naming such a lovable part of my anatomy which is also capable of providing me with such pleasure, with a name like that. (unless of course I am misunderstanding which part he meant)
I will therefore propose that this name only belongs to what comes out of the body, from a specific rear area.
For example:
“Oh man, I just dumped a huge Mohamed! I think I might have clogged your toilet.”
or
“Sorry I can’t eat that spicy food or my Mohameds are going to have a Jihad against me tomorrow…”
Better no?
My recent blogpost about my banning from Leitmotif has drawn a commenter who proceeded to give me a very lengthy and interesting reply. I was seriously impressed and started replying within the comments but seeing how big my reply was starting to become and how derailed from the original topic, I thought it might be worth giving it its own blogpost. What follows is Apple’s comment and beneath it you will find my own reply.
Forget about Objectivism. Let’s just focus on understanding what morality is.You sound like a nice guy just trying to struggle through life in a European society. Does the society you live in define what is moral? What is it that is moral in this society? Is it working 39 hours a week for a company, getting married at 29, having two kids, retiring at 59, living and vacationing to 69? Is that the moral life? WHO is society? Is it the local government? Is it the Eurocrat in Bruxelle?This is your life we’re talking about, man. Do you want to let somebody else or something else tell you what you should live for? As an atheist, there is no second ever-lasting life to look forward to. This is it! If so, I would think before you do anything in this life, you’d want to be damn sure you have figured it all out one step at a time.Morality is one of those pesky things that come up. Do you really know what it is? Ergo at Leitmotif, if I understand the gist, is remarking that, in your atheistic rush to abandon religion you in the process abandon morality. You throw the baby out with the bathwater. Is he right that morality is inescapable, even in the jungle? Who cares. But the point is you’re in a society, and there is a morality that many people in it accept. Is it right FOR YOU?As far as I can tell, morality is a collection of values to guide a man’s life. More simply, morality is a generic how-to manual for life. Like a car, you as a human being come out of an assembly line with the same owner’s manual. You may be painted black, blue, green; you may be a convertible, a hatchback, a sedan, a sporster; you may have six-cylinder, or four-, front-wheeled, automatic, or manual. But generically, you are like a car. And like cars, you have basic maintenance requirements: gas of this type here, oil of this grade here, anti-freeze fluid at this level here, brake shoes after so many km here, tire pressures per kpc here,Unlike a car, which is designed and manufactured by some company, by some designer, by a creator, you as a human being aren’t designed by ANYONE, (Evolution is not any conscious entity; evolution is a process) But you still have basic maintenance requirements. But beyond that, even if there’s another twin you/car, the owner will want to customize it with different personality and style, accessories, companions, baggages, radio-station presets, aspirations,
Society didn’t design and create you. Society is just a bunch of people in a geographical area. They are just people like you. Do human beings have invariant maintenance requirement or not?
A morality, to repeat, is a how-to manual for life. And a human being is, as a matter of plain fact, an oxygen-breathing, water-drinking, omnivorous, thinking animal with varying desires for sex, rock-n-roll, sushi; Chances are very, very high that human beings have generic maintenance requirements.
That said, religions write a number of how-to manuals for life. Islam, for example, tells you to face Mecca and pray five times a day. That’s a how-to rule in the manual to a good life. Islam’s view of life is of a second, ever-lasting life. How Is this particular rule to be judge? Well, scientifically, you have to weigh it against human needs or generic maintenance requirements. Obviously, the goal –ever-lasting life– is false, and the means –praying 5 times a day– is therefore false. So, followers of Islam are using a how-to manual that is anti-this-life.
We can say this to just about every religion that posits an ever-lasting life or reincarnation. So, scientifically, religion provides moral codes that aren’t meeting the basic maintenance requirements for a human life on this earth.
But does that mean that morality as such is not a human requirement? You know what I mean? Every car comes with an owner’s manual. Just because human beings don’t come with one doesn’t mean that they don’t need one. We come with the ability to choose alternatives. Superficially, you choose vanilla and chocolate easily, but on the big choices that take your life in one long-term direction or another you do require some standard of maintenance requirements. (Driving without replacing shoe brakes after so many years will wreck it. Trust me.) Thus, morality, like oxygen, is a human need.
So everyone needs some morality, and everyone has to write his own owner’s manual–plus, to customize and accessorize his own life. But the question remains. As with organized religions, how does each person ensure that his copy of his maintenance manual is the CORRECT one and not some cheap, plagiarized version from a whole bunch of religious copycats? To be sure, the morality manual has to allow for customization. Some people are born stubborn, moronic, deformed, slow; some are born defective as a human being. Cars off the assembly line have defects too. So, the manual of life, while generic has to account for some slight differences. But at the very least, it has to get the generic principles the same for every car and every person.
You are then faced with two questions: 1) Is your moral code at the generic level a guide to your life to meet your human maintenance requirements as a living thing, a fucking animal, a thinking animal, a musician, a producer, a scientist, a businessman? 2) How are you customizing your moral code for your individual customized purposes?
The first question is absolutely crucial to get right if the second is to have any chance of coming close to correct. The first question is independent of you; it is not a subjective thing. It’s universal to every human being on earth, past, present, future. The second question is just about you, right here, right now.
If you throw out all religions and their crappy moral codes, I’m with you. But you still need to know how to conduct your life to meet your needs. Is a good life simply a mere subsistence–a subsistence of 2000 calories a day, 2 liters of water, a vitamin pill, and three conjugal sessions a week in an enclosed space?That may be a fulfilling life generically for an ape, but not for a thinking man.
WHO is privileged to write the moral code for everyone? No God. No one. Everyone is responsibile for writing his own owner’s manual, but the basic manual he writes–before he customizes it–is the same as everyone else’s because he is a human being, not an ape or a dolphin or a crow.
And that is what ethics is about. Ethics is a science that deals with studying man (not chimps) to define a proper morality at the generic level. Ethics is a science, like physics and biology and chemistry, to test each principle and weigh each in accordance to a human maintenance requirement. Its goal, like the goal of physics, is truth. In this case, the truth is in the realm of human conduct, at the generic level, truth for all humans, whether in a religious society, a secular society, or in a jungle.
Morality is thus the product of this effort of ethical/scientific inquiry? If it is scientific, morality is about the discovery of facts of reality–facts about human beings and the how-to of living. Morality, scientifically speaking, isn’t about a convention by this or that society. Morality is an objective discovery of what is true universally, to guide you on what ought to be done. What is true for you morally is also true for me morally (with some limited degrees of optional customization). In short, morality is a code of values to guide individual human beings.
Everyone human being has one whether he acknowledges it or not. He doesn’t have to discover a morality; he can choose from among the many moral codes available. But whichever he chooses, he has to take the consequence. The wrong moral code will give him a miserable life.
This is the sense that a morality is inescapable. It’s the job of ethicists and, yes, religionists to discover and define morality. (Well, in the case of religionists, they don’t discover; they get high, hallucinate, and dream it up.) But the responsibility to validate and accept a moral code cannot be shirked by anyone. You have one life to live, you cannot afford to be wrong at this fundamental level.
What are the basic principles for guiding your own life? THAT is your morality, dude? “There is no God to guide man’s life.” That is definitely one moral principle arising from atheism–the conviction that there isn’t a supernatural entity. It does offer moral guidance. It helps you to eliminate in one sweep a whole bunch of false, religious moral codes from consideration; these are codes that can potentially ruin lives, foremost yours. But there is more to a moral code than to reject other moral codes. What are the positive moral principles? What should you–or any man–do with your life? Considering your customized conditions living in the 21st-century in Europe in some town, with some degrees of competence, having two arms, two legs, presumably single, good-looking, what are you to do with your life, not just at this moment but in the continuous span of life ahead of you? Consider all the self-help books out there in bookstores. Which ones embody the correct moral code to help you improve yourself? Consider all the jobs out there, which ones will enhance your potential as a human being? Consider all the potential mates out there; which ones to choose from? By looks, by intelligence, by moral codes? By religion–bypass that… By ambition? By popularity? To make any choice in life, you really need a moral code. You need moral principles you hope to be universally true, not subject to revision by fickled bureaucrats or the consensus of some majority in society.
Do you have a morality? Of course you do. The code of values guiding you–the moral principles–are they true? Surely some are. Obviously, you are succeeding somewhat. But a comprehensive owner’s manual tells you what you can gain and keep by doing certain activities, telling you generically what is the best in you and how to go about achieving it. Do you know what is the best in you? Are you striving for it?
Everybody has a morality, just as everyone has a right to his opinion. Ah, but opinions can be wrong, and morality can be false. You know for sure the religious morals are false. How sure you know about yours?
I could even argue that if someone from another planet were to come here and observe our rules of the road he would find us absolutely bat-shit insanse. Not because the rules do not work, but because in his planet, failing contact with our idea of rules, they have created something completely different and incompatible. Perhaps it is because of the way their cars are manufactured or because of their environment but in general it is because when they were designed, they were lacking contact with our idea. Now were a human from earth to go to that planet with the strange cars and environment, and design a appropriate “rules of the law”, you can be certain that they would be quite similar to earth’s.
You may argue thus that only one set of rules is the truly right, because it is less prone to accidents or whatnot, and you might be correct but, barring gargantuan differences in the numbers of accidents, nobody would change it. Maybe modify it with ideas from the other and thus evolve, but not throw it away altogether. Because none of the are objectively correct.
So, I agree that it is commendable for Ethicists to try and find the correct set of morals but I do not know how useful it will be in the long run. What comes out, although (hopefully) better, will still be subjective and it will need a strong memetic attribute in order to spread and enter the norm. Nevertheless, what you are not considering is that these morals are still being considered by humans with their own subjective perspective which is firmly grounded in the western morality. They are not creating morals off the top of their head, but rather they are using their current idea or morality to try and find something better. It’s like forced evolution! What may take humans ages to agree as something ethical (as what happened with the woman’s suffrage), these people might discover now. But good luck convincing anyone to use it (Like trying to convince someone for the moral right of woman vote in the 10th century…). Not only that, but many moral values sometimes require a catalyst before they can even start to take root. In the same way that the abolition of slavery demanded an Industrial Revolution.
So, what I am doing Apple, is not throwing out morality altogether. Nor am I considering all moral values to be on the same scale, as Evanescent and Ergosum want to think of me *[1]. I still have a sense of right and wrong and the root of it comes from my upbringing. However my own, subjective sense has evolved to the point where I personally do not accept many of commonly accepted moral rules. I avoid doing those things which would create problems with the law for me, and I do not always express my more radical ideas (altough this is what I’m slowly trying to do through my blog) out of fear of ostracising but I still keep them, not because I am irrational, but because I have judged them in my own mind and my own reason to be right.
However -and this will answer your final question – I am aware that I am not objective here. I do not perform the hybris of the Objectivist to assume that because I consider something moral, it must be rational. If, during the course of the conversation, one of my moral values are challenged and I am shown where and why they fail, I will either modify it or discard it altogether. This is not something that a person who considers morals something “Objective” will be willing to do however. For to accept that something he considered “Objective” all his life to be false, wrong or plain irrational, would have unfortunate reprecursions on his view of the world. “Who was it that decided this objectivity of the value for me” he will think (Bear with me, I know I am caricaturing).
Was it reason? “But that would mean that I was unreasonable! Irrational! And this simply cannot be for I know myself to be rational. Thus you are wrong and my moral value must still be true. We’re just missing something.”
Was it God through the holy scripture? “But that would mean that God is not infallible or that the Bible is not his word and this cannot be! I based my whole life on these rules so it must be true. There must be something else we are not considering. Let me ask my preacher…”
We all know what happens when a theist just knows that a moral value in the scripture is wrong. Because he must accept that morality is objective and comes from God, he will form excuses in his mind for this apparent problem and then ignore it. That is why it is so hard to change the morality of a person who considers morality to be objective, even when those morals are shown to be wrong. I do not suffer from such a drawback.
[1] To tell you the truth, this is a bit disheartening, I wanted to believe that other “rational” atheists would not be so quick to jump to conclusions. Like a theist jumping to conclusions from the label “Atheist. But I digress…
Well, it seems that after heavily commenting on the subject of Morality in the Jungle and trying to explain how morality is an irrelevant issue when living alone, the discussion eventually reached the point where the owner of the blog, Ergo – apparently an Objectivism supporter and capable apologist – just had to blog about the comments in a new post.
Therein I am immediately described as:
“an atheist, moral subjectivist, collectivist, and is obviously influenced by evolutionary empiricism a la Dawkins, Hitchen, et al. to a great extent”
Which I do not find really unflattering (Although I would argue the “collectivist” part). However, it is immediatey followed by:
“The fact that a person is an atheist does not say anything about his commitment to rationality. “
Perhaps Ergo meant to say that it does not say anything about his commitment to Objectivism and he would be correct. I consider myself a quite rational person and the fact that what I consider reason differs from what Ergo or an objectivist believes only means that there is a difference of opinion which could then be resolved through discussion.
Nevertheless Ergo appears to believe that the evolution of morals and (thus) moral subjectivism is immediately incorrect. Nevermind the fact that evidence (i.e. history) backs up my position while the only basis he has is Ayn Rand’s “axioms”. Failing to argue against my position, a strawman is set up to be attacked:
“Db0 commits the naturalistic fallacy of arguing from the view that what is given by nature is the way it should be. Notice the dismissal of the volitional faculty of man’s mind to make choices autonomously”
Needless to say that this is not my position. This of course will not deter an objectivist, who like an expert christian apologist will begin arguing on the basis that his philosophy is correct and any fact that disagrees with this must thus be incorrect. What follows of course is a rant about how Richard Dawkins’ positions on memes and “evolutionaty empiricism” is flawed (as well as secular humanism apparently)
I especially liked the part where I am lumped in a random camp of “people” (apparently a bad bunch):
“They are creating a vacuum in morality, which permits people like Db0 to conclude that morality is ultimately a fabrication of society, the fad of the day, the need of a pack, subjectivist, relativistic, etc. In essence, while throwing out the dogmatic morality of religion, they throw out the notion of objective morality itself. “
Of course “we” (I honestly don’t know who the rest of my “posse” is, but I digress) throw the notion of objective morality out. It is a fake idea which is currently supported by theists and Objectivists. The theists because they must accept that goddidit and Objectivists because without this pillar, their philosophy starts to show serious stress. Since they cannot explain how and by whom this “Objective morality” is defined, they engage in mental masturbations and circular logic. As lichanos amusingly said it:
“Ooops. Yeah, if rationality is the definition of morality, then acting rationally is always moral, right? Of course, if an act is not rational, it’s not moral, and we know immorality when we see it because it’s not rational. And we know it’s not rational because we have Objectivism’s first principles as a guide…And since morals MUST be rational because values MUST be rational, then it follows…but why you believe this is beyond me. “
This whole discussion which amusingly enough started by an innocent comment I made in Evanescent’s journal where I simply said “Communism is not irrational” has apparently grown into a clusterblog. Objectivism was thrown in as a response, links were given, Objectivist apologist allies were drawn into the battle, comments upon comments, where unfortunately most of my arguments are ignored altogether, and finally as a culmination, my own blogpost.
To tell the truth, I am getting tired of this debate as we seem to be having fundamental differences in the way we argue and perceive various issues. Most telling was Evanescent’s reply to the comments where I was told that unless I agree that Morality is objective we cannot discuss what it is or where it comes from. At least we can agree on one thing, Libertarians are not a benign bunch of people.
Nevertheless, with each of Ergo’s replies I am once again drawn into the mayem as my stubborness just does not allow me to accept positions (especially about me) which are blatantly incorrect.